Editing - when do you stop?

[Lost Muse]

Okay so I have completed writing the first draft of my OF romance novel (Yay). But now I'm stuck in that horrible editing loop that seems to be never ending. The first time round, I wanted to change some small plot points & develop characters etc. so I went back to the story & edited majorly. The second time round, I went back to comb through and fix any grammar/spelling/narrative/basic mistakes. And now, I am actually wanting to go back again to read one more time and carry on editing. Just makes me wonder though - how do you ever be completely satisfied with your work before you can say "okay I'm done - time to send this in for publishing!"

 

With fan fiction, it's always been different (for me) - because I can post the story and go back to editing it as many times as I like (obsession I tell you). But with OF, you know once you send it out for publishing, it's done. So how do you know when to stop editing? Do you ever know? Or do you never hit a point where you're satisfied and you just have to take a leap of faith and send it out? To those who've already published, how many times did you edit your entire novel (before sending it out)?

 

Share your experiences and wisdom!

[scooterbug8515]

First off congrats love on finishing a novel!  That is no small task and need to be fully applauded!  *insert clapping smiley/gif*

 

As for editing, it is a beast and your work is NEVER done.  You never feel like it is done.  You want to go back and change things.  You always see things than you can make better and improve upon.  This is the very reason why I don't go back and read "The Gilded Rose"

 

Now one of the first things I HIGHLY suggest is get a second pair of eyes on your story!  Get another person to read it because no matter how many times you read through things there will be stuff you miss, mainly because you know know the story so well, you know the words you mean to say and will fill in gaps mentally without realizing you are doing it.  So if you can get a second set of eyes.

 

From there you just kind of have to take a deep breath and tell yourself that it is 'good'.  You eventually have to let go, it is hard to do but necessary.  For me, I set a deadline that I needed to be done by which helped in a lot of ways and I also reached the point of 'if I don't publish now, it will never happen'.  So I took the plunge.

 

Now, a question for you.  What type of publishing are you going with because that will help in determining when to let things go and call the story 'done'.  If you are going with Indie/self publishing it is all down to you and your timing and what you do with it.  If you are going for traditional publication, start doing inquiry letters, send that puppy out where appropriate and see if you can get some bites.  You can continue to work on edits while you inquire.  ALSO, once you have an agent and a publisher your work is soo not done.  Your book will go through the wringer with the publishing house and you will have oodles and oodles of edits you didn't dream possible to attack, before your book goes to print.

 

Of course I don't have experience with traditional publication, so my information there is based on a lot of research while Indie/self publishing is my personal experience.

[KJ Cartmell]

I finished a new adult love story in December. Immediately, I reached out to some of my writer friends for feedback. I wrote my manuscript in Google Docs. I gave them access to the file, and they were able to give me feedback in real time, leaving comments in the margins. I had two great partners, and they both gave me valuable constructive criticism. I'm making a round of edits based on this feedback, and then I'll be querying small presses. My goal is to get this manuscript as good as I can make it, but at some point, I need to let it go out into the world. There are projects stacking up in my queue behind this one. (Especially, I want to return to HPFT with some new material!)

[Oregonian]

I have seen a story idea/manuscript that was developed from the earliest germ of an idea, and the author kept working on it, revising and creating, and the story got better and better, but after a certain point, with continued re-thinking, the story got worse and worse.

 It reminded me of a peach growing on a tree.  At first it's just a tiny green knob, no more than a possibility, but as it grows, it gets steadily bigger and more peach colored and less rock-hard, until it's really fine -- juicy and flavorful, just soft enough to eat, and with a rich, warm color.  And then if you don't pick it but just let it keep going, it starts to get too soft, and rotty spots appear, and it starts to shrivel up, and it smells fermented.

I think the secret is to recognize, as best you can, when the peach has reached that zone of perfection (not just one day, of course, but over a short span of days), and then pick it and send it to market before it goes too far.

A story can be the same way.  I would say to edit it until you think that its flaws have been addressed but the original spark, the spirit, the vision that started it off is still there.  Then quit while you're ahead.  Luckily with stories, if we think that we have tortured them a little too much, we can always pull out our time turner and back up a bit.  But there's no way to un-rot a peach.  

[shadowycorner]

Lots of great advice here already, and I'd just like to add that a good mini exercise is to sign up or enter a short story (or any) writing competition. Usually there's a deadline, so there will come a time when you just have to submit the story no matter what.

I've done it twice now and it's really helped me. If you're writing this short story, once it's finished and you have time to send it to others to check (betas), then you can edit it a second time yourself + with their advice and comments as well, and then maybe give it a third read, but if there's a deadline, you can't keep editing forever and ever, you'll get to a point where you have to do the last 'save document' and hit 'send'. You will probably still find mistakes, maybe you will still want to change some stuff, but that deadline helps you take a step back and have that finality of sending something. It can be scary, but also a very good habit to get into if you want to keep writing and submitting your manuscripts.

And it's a short story, so it's a good stepping stone before you're ready to part with your novel baby for the first time.

[nott theodore]

The irony of me posting here is that I hate editing my own stories and either avoid it or overdo it - but I do work as an editor (for non-fiction), so I have some experience in how we work.

The advice of having a deadline in mind is excellent - I think that's really key, especially if you feel that you're getting stuck in a cycle of endless editing.  That way, you've got a goal to aim for while you're editing, which will help focus the process, and also mean that you reach a point where you feel happy with what you have - where it's good enough, if not perfect (and aiming for perfection can be really dangerous, because everyone's measure is different).

Sharing your work with other people is also brilliant advice.  Making sure that you've had other eyes looking over it always helps, even if it's just for encouragement.  But there are usually people who can give you great and useful feedback on your writing - even if it's as simple as something missing from a chapter that you've never spotted before because it seemed obvious to you when it was all in your head.

Another thing I'd say is to focus on different things while you're editing.  Break it down into stages - smaller tweaks, like phrasing and typos, need to come at the very end.  Start with the big stuff - the plot, the characters etc.  You'll pick up a lot more as you go if you're focusing on one thing, and limiting each aspect to its own stage can help push away the temptation to change things over and over again.

[just.a.willow.tree]

8 minutes ago, nott theodore said:

but I do work as an editor (for non-fiction), so I have some experience in how we work

!!! I had no idea you worked as an editor! Can I ask what kind of non-fiction you edit (i.e. is it creative non-fiction like memoirs/essays or something more scientific/academic or something in between)? Does that impact the way you approach editing others' works?

I also love what you said about focusing on a different element of the work with each pass, starting with larger-scale things and working down to smaller, more detailed issues. I try and do that, but I often find myself stuck very much at the sentence level -- my brain doesn't seem to want to go any bigger than that.  So for me, it's not a matter so much of "when do you stop?" -- it's more like "how does one even get going to begin with?"

[nott theodore]

2 hours ago, just.a.willow.tree said:

!!! I had no idea you worked as an editor! Can I ask what kind of non-fiction you edit (i.e. is it creative non-fiction like memoirs/essays or something more scientific/academic or something in between)? Does that impact the way you approach editing others' works?

I also love what you said about focusing on a different element of the work with each pass, starting with larger-scale things and working down to smaller, more detailed issues. I try and do that, but I often find myself stuck very much at the sentence level -- my brain doesn't seem to want to go any bigger than that.  So for me, it's not a matter so much of "when do you stop?" -- it's more like "how does one even get going to begin with?"

Well, I've only been in this job since September so I'm not the most experienced yet, but it is my job and I've learnt a lot since starting it.  I work for an educational publisher - we actually write and edit our own products, so it's a really collaborative process.  While it's quite different to writing fiction, I think a lot of the things we do at work can definitely be applied, particularly where the editing of the actual work is concerned

The focusing on different elements is really useful - I find it hard not to look at a sentence level in my own writing too, particularly if I spot a typo or random sentence structure that's wrong.  But there's no point fixing the little things like that unless you've got the plot and characterisation sorted, because otherwise you'll just end up rewriting again.

(These are lessons that I really need to apply to my own writing haha.)

[magemadi]

Editing is something I rarely do for fic, but I’ve found myself already editing scenes of my screenplay like 3 times, primarily due to having someone else read it out loud besides me and finding the clunky dialogue to cut, or getting a better idea of my characters and how I want them to go on their journey. 

Breaking it down into different “types” of editing is actually very helpful — I’ve never thought of it that way and tend to focus on the nitty gritty grammar/spelling/sentence structure, so maybe doing things that way will help me become a better editor of both my own work and others’ work. Also holy cow Sian what a neat job!!

[shadowycorner]

On 7/2/2020 at 8:14 PM, nott theodore said:

Another thing I'd say is to focus on different things while you're editing.  Break it down into stages - smaller tweaks, like phrasing and typos, need to come at the very end.  Start with the big stuff - the plot, the characters etc.  You'll pick up a lot more as you go if you're focusing on one thing, and limiting each aspect to its own stage can help push away the temptation to change things over and over again.

This is such helpful advice and very valid, and it actually took me a long time to realize that editing is SO MUCH more than just typo fixing, lol.  Focusing on plot and characters during editing stages can be so hard, though because there's the danger of changing your mind about everything all the time and always and getting stuck in a circle. But the plot thing can be awesome, especially since at the beginning you didn't necessarily know where you were about to end up, and so having that ability to look at the big picture from afar can truly help work out the beginning perfectly to fit your ending.

Another thing that works for me is taking a few days away from finished products or scenes, come back to it with fresh eyes some time later. You totally pick up on things you didn't see before, maybe add cool new stuff. I think this is quite well-known tip, but I just wanted to prove that it definitely works :D