User Karma (applaud/smite) Discussion

[toomanycurls]

Today there was some discussion on Twitter regarding the use of karma points to  applaud and smite users, particularly the use of the smite option when someone shares an unpopular opinion. As a result, I want to highlight the options for karma on the site.

 

Karma can be implemented in three ways:

-Turn off the functionality

-Turn on with a +/- breakdown visible

-Turn on with only a total score shown

 

There's not an option to just enable applauding but the labels (karma, applaud, and smite) can be changed. The points are aggregated to the user profile and not as directly linked to a single post (although people may guess which posts were smited, it is just a guess).

 

What I'd like people to discuss is:

-How should karma points be implemented?

-Please discuss the pros and cons of leaving it as is, changing to a total view, or disabling it.

 

Based on the discussion and feedback we will either leave the karma system in place, edit the +/- visibility, or disable altogether -- so please share your opinions!

[scooterbug8515]

I voted for an over all.  That way new people just see numbers and don't see any negative impact unless one can go into negative numbers but if we get that far on a profile there might be a bigger issue. (Or it is a spoof account like the return of Umbridge who wouldn't want to smite the hell out of her?)

 

But an over all number the smites would only be noticed by the user themselves and those people who watch Karma closely.  (I am not one I only pay attention to my Karama and then guess where I got the point.)  But that is my two cents on the matter.

 

If we don't go to total points, I would like it to stay as is.  I like seeing the number go up.  It was something I enjoyed when we did up votes and had reputation on HPFF.  I know on the whole the points are kind of meaningless but that is the fun (It's like Whose Line is it Anyway, where the points don't matter).  Also we can change the words to up vote/down vote so it is popularity rather than considered 'mean-ness'

 

 

EDIT:  I did think of new words for this!  Thumbs up and Thumbs down.  Or Like and Dislike.  (I know super simple but less mean than smite - though I would still love to smite the hell out of an Umbridge account)

[crowsb4bros]

Hi! So I've already gone on and on about this and you're no doubt tired of hearing from me My general view is that I think showing total points would be better. Then one person having a knee jerk reaction doesn't have such a strong impact. When I saw the points when I first joined a negative one was my worst fear! Then people would assume I was basically Voldemort. Not so much now but still.

 

If not, I'd also say leave it as it is. I just want everyone to keep in mind that hpft should be a safe place to express viewpoints without being afraid of backlash. We are a diverse group of really cool people with different backgrounds and conversation goes a long way.

[Stella Blue]

I'd be in favor of either total points, or turn the points off altogether. I really don't like the idea of showing the negative points. It hasn't happened to me (yet), but I know that the inevitable post I make that someone downvotes, I'll see the negative point there and go into a panic of self-doubt that I've gravely offended someone and/or that I have stupid opinions. Maybe I'm too sensitive, but that's how I feel about it.

 

Total points though, that looks a lot nicer Yeah if you're really paying attention you might notice that the number is less because someone's downvoted a post, but that is so much less visible without the negative number which is so jarring to the eye - because overall most people have more upvoted posts than downvoted ones. So it focuses more on the positive than the negative, and I like that.

 

And turning the points off is a nice option too because it just puts everyone on the same level rather than it being something of a popularity contest. Like how necessary is it to ascribe a numerical value to anyone's opinions?

 

(but my first choice would be total points, because like scooterbug said, I too still want to smite the hell out of Umbridge)

[MegGonagall]

I agree with everyone else. I know I wouldn't really be too bothered if someone smited me on something, because I know that everyone has different opinions on things, and if someone hadn't agreed with me and smited me I'd understand.  But that's just me.

 

I think having the negative points being visible might be a bit intimidating to newer members and it may impact their involvement in the site, and we don't want that. New members wouldn't know how wonderful everyone really is on this site and may be afraid to voice an opinion thinking they may be smited for it. There also may be older members who wouldn't be comfortable with that being visible to everyone either.

 

I like the idea of a total point system. I know I don't really pay close enough attention to other's reputation points, so I'd never notice if someone's points went down.

 

But yeah, long story short, I like the idea of only being able to see a total point number.

[Ineke]

Stella has basically said all how I feel about it. I think a total version would be completely best, really (because it remains handy for stuff like HC if we get that here as well), and by hiding the smite ones, it won't hit as hard. Some people are really sensitive and they might indeed feel intimidated or horrible about it when or if they'd get a negative point which is in view for everyone. A total one woudn't hit way as hard (unless they all got smited but hey, I think people might only do that with a fun account like Umbridge, as people above said).

 

Changing the words can also be done, really, but I don't have that good suggestions at the moment, aside from the ones already mentioned.

[Alopex]

because it remains handy for stuff like HC if we get that here as well

 

Actually, as Rose said...

 

The points are aggregated to the user profile and not as directly linked to a single post (although people may guess which posts were smited, it is just a guess).

 

Our software is different and not as fancy as HPFF's (it's free, so...), and there is no way to tell which post a smite/applaud is attached to.  I just wanted to reiterate that because I have seen a few mentions now about upvotes and such, and it's just not possible here at this time.

[Ineke]

That obviously showed how awake I am, lol

 

But thanks for the additional clarification In any case, I do stand by my opinion of that it would be better if it'd be an all around total People can be sensitive and it might hurt them/scare them away if they would get a negative vote and it'd be displayed for everyone to see.

[Margaret]

I think it would be better to just see the total, because I think that if/when somebody sees they've been smited, there's a tendency to start wondering what you've said wrong and if you've offended somebody or if somebody dislikes you. Obviously not everybody will care, but I think in general it's less obvious if you just have your total.

[abhorsen.]

One other thing for people to keep in mind in general is that sometimes, people get downvoted or smited accidentally; negative points don't necessarily mean anything.

[banshee]

So I voted a few hours ago for the points to just be totaled, but as I'm thinking more and more I'm more in support of getting rid of them. If they don't serve a purpose besides "look how many points I have" - (which I don't know, BTS-wise if they mean anything). It seems like the negative side could just cause hurt feelings (accidentally as Branwen said or out of bitterness or frustration like it generally seems people believe). I do like the idea of being able to "like" (or upvote or applaud) posts, but if the points aren't for individual points I suppose I just don't see the point of them? (pun totally not intended, but  8) ) #shrugs

[Dr Win]

I'm gonna give an opinion here since I may be be most smited person on the site (don't worry, it's cool).

 

I actually like them separated and here's why. 1) my smite points come from people down voting my opinions. I'm proud of them cause I state what I believe and if you don't like it, too bad. Down voting doesn't hurt my feelings, it makes me laugh. 2) I think I would actually dislike it more if it was a single number because I'd be all proud of a number that I reached, and then it would start to go down when people smited it. That would actually make me a little more like....wait. I prefer that you can see both points, if you combined them i would go down to 11 and while that's not a big deal to anyone else *i* would know.

 

I think the whole system is kind of a popularity contest, which i actually don't like at all. (Most of you who know me probably already know that about me haha)

 

I told Toomanycurls I wasn't gonna state my opinion in here but after being smited again today, I thought I should. Literally did not even pay attention to the system untill yesterday. So my vote is to either keep it as is or get rid of it.

[UnluckyStar57]

As someone with neither smite(s) nor applause(s), I just want to say that I think the whole karma points system is very cute and seems very friendly to me. Tbh, I giggle myself silly because of the word "smite"--it reminds me of Monty Python for some reason. If I ever get "smitten," I would actually be overjoyed because I would be like, *squeaky dramatic voice* "Oh! I've been smitten! The horror!".

 

Lol, but that's just me being weird. I don't know if other people see it that way at all, because you've still got a plus side and a minus side. Still, I do like the way they're labelled--I always felt super sad when one of my posts would get "downvoted" (even if by accident--there's really no way to tell if it's accident or not sometimes), but "applause" and "smite" are just friendlier terms to me.

 

I do think that they would be useful in the event of a House Cup or something because of the *hint hint wink wink*s from the staffers, but honestly, I could live without them. As long as someone smites me at least once before they go away. 

 

(modifying because I am a silly girl and even after I read it five times, the concept flew out of my head nonetheless)  :

[abhorsen.]

I do think that they would be useful in the event of a House Cup or something because of the *hint hint wink wink*s from the staffers, but honestly, I could live without them. As long as someone smites me at least once before they go away. 

As Alo mentioned above, the points aren't actually attached to any particular post, just the user - so upvoting posts to help with riddles, etc isn't going to be an option in any case.  :-\

[Nix]

I have to say I both do and don't like the karma points. Since we can't know what posts they are attached to, then really they don't seem all that helpful or necessary and mostly just seem like a popularity contest. But I also do like them and enjoy seeing the positive number go up and maybe have a bit of sick fascination to see the negative number go up (or is it down?). But again, since I can only guess which posts may be getting applauded or smote then the whole idea seems kind of pointless.

 

 

 

 

[TreacleTart]

Honestly, to me it doesn't really seem to serve any purpose. The points aren't attached to specific posts, so they can't be used to give hints for riddles and activities. They also don't offer any insight on the things that you've said that may or may not have offended someone.

 

I know it's been mentioned that sometimes downvote/smites happen by accident, and with the system before at HPFF, I could understand how and why that happened, but I find it highly unlikely (although not impossible) that people accidentally are smiting on this site. The point location is in a different area and much larger. Just my thoughts though, I could be totally off base on that one.

 

Aside from all of that, I can say that a really impressive total makes you feel like a cool kid (or at least it did for me on HPFF. Maybe I'm totally vain and childish though), but it does really suck when you see your point totals come down. For someone like me who has bad anxiety, I honestly just end up sitting their reading through things obsessively trying to figure out what I said that was offensive and why someone felt the need to smite me for it. Again, these could be more personal insecurities than a normal feeling.

 

Either way, I personally am not all that attached to a point system.

[WindingArrow]

I like the point system, personally. I suppose it doesn't really matter if they stay or go, but I do enjoy them. I find them amusing. I've smite'd a few times, but it wasn't in malice or anything like that. In fact, I don't even remember why I decided to smite, it was just something I did in the moment. I pass out way more applauds than I do anything else- it's almost like a game, hunt for the post I like SO MUCH that I want to click that button.

 

It doesn't really matter to me what you do with it. The total points thing might be interesting and could even be more like a game? In the end, you should just do whatever makes the members most comfortable, but I think it's a fun little side activity. I miss it being attached to a post, but it doesn't really bother me.

 

It wouldn't bother me if I had a hundred smites- I like my opinions, popular or unpopular, and I guess I sort of see the buttons as a passive aggressive way to disagree that wouldn't start a fight? It's my opinion and it's someone else's opinion if they don't like it.

[toomanycurls]

Thank you everyone who voted and commented in this thread. Given the majority of votes went towards enabling Karma with a totals only view, I have updated the site config with that change.

 

Please remember to be considerate when using this feature and try to discuss divergent views instead of just clicking smite (after all, we are meant to be a discussion based forum  8))