Use of Veritaserum in investigations

[Darling_take_off_the_mask]

I’m trying to figure out to what extent, if any, the Ministry might use Veritaserum in investigations, specifically investigating crimes. We know it wasn’t offered to Sirius when they thought he killed Peter, though I’m sure the official line on that would be that they had tons of eyewitnesses already and he appeared raving mad, so it was unnecessary and pointless. In googling for any JKR comments and looking at the wiki, it appears it is typically disfavored because, like its Muggle counterpart the polygraph, it is fallible and can be defeated by talented wizards/ through the use of antidotes or trickery. 
 

But we hear in canon that the use of Veritaserum is “strictly controlled” by the Ministry. So for what purposes would it be strictly controlled, if not to interrogate suspects of serious crimes?

 

To put a finer point on it, here’s my dilemma: I’m trying to plan out a story where (current working idea) someone dies, and the suspects are his wife and their son (both magic). Priori incantatem is performed and it’s determined that the son’s wand cast the curse, but the mother claims she cast it because the deceased would often take her wand and lock it up (abusive relationship). I’m still working out the particulars, but I’m just wondering, is the existence of Veritaserum such a huge plot hole that I’m dead in the water with this idea? Or do you think the failure to use Veritaserum as an investigative tool can be plausibly explained? This would take place during the 1970’s, if it matters.

 

I suppose I could just skirt the issue by making the investigators willing to take her confession at face value and avoid making their job more complicated... 

[BellaLestrange87]

So in terms of being strictly controlled I'm thinking that it would be usable only by Ministry employees for strictly regulated official purposes and that it wouldn't be accessible to anyone outside of the Ministry unless they brewed it themselves. And while it's definitely possible to defeat Veritaserum (like it's possible to defeat a polygraph), I feel like it's controlled because the majority of people wouldn't be capable of doing so, and that would make it possible for people to exploit others using it. I headcanon that towards the end of the First Wizarding War the Ministry really didn't care about anyone's rights if they were suspected of being a Death Eater and that Sirius was deemed guilty upon being arrested.

How you want to headcanon Veritaserum use depends on how you want the rest of your story to go (or at least the investigative part?). You could potentially have the investigators being only allowed to use Veritaserum if someone won't cooperate, or if they voluntarily agree to it, or if there's something Super Duper Majorly Extremely Important that rests on having information out of somebody Right This Minute.

Alternatively, you could have the mother offer to take Veritaserum and have that in itself convince the investigators that she's telling the truth (maybe because in their minds nobody would choose to do that if they would contradict themselves)?

Good luck with your fic! This looks super interesting and I can't wait to read it when you post it!

[Darling_take_off_the_mask]

@BellaLestrange87 All awesome suggestions, thank you!

 

I also agree with you, in that my thought is there wasn’t a lot of due process being observed around the time of the First Wizarding War. And I suppose that could cut both ways on the use of Veritaserum - either they decide not to use it if they’ve already made you their minds, OR they just force everyone to take it...

[grumpy cat]

11 hours ago, RonsGirlFriday said:

they just force everyone to take it

i think you could argue that this would be a violation of a person's right to remain silent (and not incriminate themselves...or their family) i mean, idk, but i think that you would have to agree to take veritaserum and it couldn't be forced upon you.

[Darling_take_off_the_mask]

@grumpy cat Totally a violation of the right to silence. I just wondered how progressive the wizarding world is in terms of rights like that, considering what we know of the Ministry in canon.  But you make a really great point that I think I can work with!

[grumpy cat]

4 minutes ago, RonsGirlFriday said:

@grumpy cat Totally a violation of the right to silence. I just wondered how progressive the wizarding world is in terms of rights like that, considering what we know of the Ministry in canon.  But you make a really great point that I think I can work with!

ooh, i think that might depend on when the story is happening. we know that a lot of the rules were ignored and unforgivables made, er, forgivable at the height of the first war so i think that in times of crisis similar things would happen, unless there's a principled person at the head of the ministry and/or the department of magical law enforcement. even then, you might have rogue aurors/investigators using methods that aren't strictly by the rule book (you could also have a very principled investigator unwilling to use unlawful (made lawful at the time) methods) so i really think you can swing it whichever way fits your story best

[toomanycurls]

15 hours ago, RonsGirlFriday said:

is the existence of Veritaserum such a huge plot hole that I’m dead in the water with this idea? Or do you think the failure to use Veritaserum as an investigative tool can be plausibly explained? This would take place during the 1970’s, if it matters.

I can see the wizarding world being very haphazard when it comes to the use of various ways of getting the truth out of people. Legilimency and Veritaserum should mean that there's literally no way to lie about your involvement in a crime but we've seen many cases where these aren't used (Sirius, Barty Crouch Jr, etcetera). Even someone deeply interested in crime around a subject doesn't use all the really accessible magic at their disposal (LIKE WHY DIDN'T DUMBLEDORE DIG INTO WHETHER SIRIUS BETRAYED JAMES AND LILY??? WOULDN'T HE WANT TO KNOW MORE ABOUT WHY HE WENT TO VOLDEMORT'S SIDE AND KNOW MORE ABOUT VOLDEMORT IN GENERAL?) 

phew. okay. 

Yeah, you can spin the use of stuff like that however you want and it'll make sense. 

[facingthenorthwind]

Late but I think that possibly you could argue that Veritaserum could be used in investigations (probably for crimes where the wizard isn't obviously powerful enough to resist it) but not as the sole evidence since it's fallible? Like, maybe it could strengthen an existing case. (is that moral? Probably not, but what is in the wizarding world? Not much) 

[crowsb4bros]

Extra late but in general I think it could go one of two ways:

Similar to a polygraph where it's voluntary but often coerced. The questions would have to be specific and limited and the accuracy would probably be up for debate. What someone believes may not be the actual truth of the matter. Eg if I was the driver in a car accident resulting in a death I might blame myself but the fault could go to anyone involved or be chalked up to a true accident. 

Extreme cases of "ministry security" akin to the US's blanket national security. It'd make sense then that Barty Crouch Jr would be interrogated as he could have ministry sensitive information. This is the one I find more likely which makes Umbridge's administration of it on children all the more egregious.